Curse

SiLKy · Jan 11, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Hi I recently started playing an assasin as an alt and have to say I really cant believe the low survivability of this profession. Im lvl 13 now and everytime I venture out into the world I die LOTS, sometimes after the first pull, it doesnt help that up to where I am in the game (The Market Place) there is only one healer henchman available despite the group size limit being 8.

I have tried to fathom out why this is happening and using a combination of critical eye and way of perfection to try and do some self healing (and the other skill that gives you +4 health regen for 5 seconds) , its just not enough. Im wearing the 400g seitung armour with as many vitai runes on as I can get. Got around 400 hit points and 30 energy.

Also I dont seem to have many skills despite being lvl 13, I think this is due to me not really bothering to do many quests and just following the primary story etc.

Can anyone with a bit more experience tell me if this is the case for the entire game (which t cant be as I have faced sins in pvp and they usually rip me apart in a matter of seconds)

Also Factions is very annoying when compared to nightfall, The areas and mobs are nice but the general game play isnt done very wekk, terrain is blobby which causes your camera angle to screw up occasinally when running around.

I really hope this does get better as the game goes on as I do really like the assasin class, its just so frustrating to play that I dont really want too.

Any help would be appreciated

pve-er · Jan 11, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

lvl 13 is WAY low at mainland especially for Assassin, you simply have not enough Health and skills to sustain the dmg from foe. you need max armor too. unlike Prophecy that you can be at low level after pre-searing for a while, Cantha and Elona will require quite high lvl to survive outside of Noob island.

also being Assassin you must not make yourself the target of your enemy. most of the none- attack related skill are use to deal with splash damage, not attack that target you. Assassin don't run in first, don't tank. run away when you become a target. keep that in mind. I've die enough to tell you that. 1700+ death so far.

Utaku · Jan 11, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Basically you need :
*Max armor cause mobs target low armor people first.
*To do the two 15 attribute points quest in shing jea island (check guildwiki for more detail about these)
*Get to level 20 with secure fedex quests in bazar (be sure to have 'find brother Tai' in your quest log so that Am Fam are not hostile)

When this is done, surviving is not that hard, provided you don't rush into mobs, but let your warrior go first, and bring a prot character (either prot monk or rit henchie).

Hope this helps.

Crazyvietguy · Jan 11, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

The one thing about Factions that doesnt really come up in the other 2 games is Side quests. These are VERY important because without them you cant really progress through the game at a desired level (as you've found out). Most of the quests are pretty simple however and usually involve killing one mob or talking to a bunch of people. Try to "find" quests that dont involve much questing and youll level up quick. Since they give like 2000 exp per quest

Yanman.be · Jan 11, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Nightfall has alot of sidequests too I heard. Or was that the endless stream of primary quests?

SiLKy · Jan 11, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Yes I have a lot of quests that I havent done, as from playing factions you dont really need to do them, I will finish the main story and then go back and do the quests for EXP for skill points.

Will try and clear some of my factions quests and lvl up a bit.

Thanks for help

SiLKy · Jan 11, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Nightfall I mean :P

Ashe. · Jan 11, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

You should try practicing letting the others run in first, then you go in do your damage and get out.
I had this problem with my A/Mo and got angry right where you are and quit her...I then made an A/W and rarely die, even though i'm a lot farther then my A/Mo.
If I find myself getting targed heres what I cast:
Shadow Refuge -> Like +6 Regen and life if your attacking
Heart Of Shadow -> Shadow step to random location, next attack done to you heals for 65 Damage (like my favorite skill)
and if its not over I'll use deaths charge.

If I'm still being targeted I'll just back out a little lol.

SotiCoto · Jan 17, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

As someone whose Guild Wars experience consists about 95% of playing one Assassin character, I have found a few ways to get around this tricky little issue of dying quickly and easily. Incidentally its worth noting that ignorance is bliss... Since I've never felt compelled to play any other classes, I don't have anything to relate to in order to see just how bad the assassin dying problem really is... so I'm quite happy with my personal fatality-rate now I've got the hang of the game (and I don't die too often, though I'm presently at around 970-odd, aiming to break the 1000 mark soon).

Anyhow... my advice...

#1. Predator :
Avoid tanks and spike spellcasters as they have the least health generally and are quite likely to die before you do. Make sure to go for the ones on the periphery that are most separated from the others, and especially if they're furthest from the monks... Monks themselves might be a problem due to their constant healing, though I usually find that taking the monk down first ensures the rest of the party is much more easily killed. Ritualists however seem to be highest priority since, at least from my Factions experience, they are most often assigned to resurrecting their allies.
IF you cannot kill the enemy you're targetting quickly then just get the hell outta there (Dash or some sort of shadow step) as Assassins aren't long-haul characters.
Learn from the Necromancers and Mesmers. Empathy and Spiteful Spirit are an assassin's worst enemies... but that doesn't mean you can't take Mesmer or Necromancer secondary and defy their expectations by hexing them back with anti-spellcaster hexes. My very first build relied heavily on Backfire and Empathy.

#2. Pimp :
I noticed that the healer henchies in Factions are mostly female. Thats why I tend to refer to them as my ho-possé... but thats not the point. I don't go ANYWHERE without my two Healer Heroes... and usually take one or two healer henchies besides. It often doesn't matter how quickly you're losing health if you've got that many healers backing you up... well... provided you're not a total idiot in battle. It just means you don't have to be AS careful. Assassins aren't meant to solo, remember...
Its also a good idea to have at least one warrior henchie with you at all times. An easy trick when running into combat is to space-engage the enemy from just outside range, then activate Shadow Refuge or something briefly to cause your character to pause and the warrior to run just ahead (thereby taking the brunt of the initial assault).
Just for the record, I almost always have Tahlkora, Olias and Dunkoro as my heroes. Two monks and one maximised minion master (yes, with a lvl 26 Flesh Golem) is a combination that rarely goes wrong. Never underestimate the value of competant peons.

#3. Mistaken Identity :
Secondary classes are there for a reason. Its not ideal, but sometimes I will go out with Hyun Chae Soon built up as an SS Necro... with Dash, Shadow Refuge and Caltrops as the only Assassin skills. I often find that he survives much longer if he stays out of melee... and typical assassin attack skills are useless outside of melee. Nothing wrong with imitating another class therefore (especially since his armour is maximised for energy and his curses staff is likewise battery-packed). I also have an inbetweener build with SS and Mark of Pain... just in case I want to go in there to combo and have it become an AoE party (nothing sours the friendships of annoying group-huggers like an A/N toting Mark of Pain).
Even when you're not playing secondary as primary, if you have a spellcaster secondary class then don't be afraid to switch over to a wand or staff occasionally if you don't feel up to charging in... (just make sure you have enough points in the necessary attribute to make it worthwhile, and a few skills optimised for use with a staff).

#4. Illusionary Daggers :
My personal favourite (though to maximise effectiveness you need all three campaigns: Elite from Prophecies, Class from Factions, Tanking skills from Nightfall). I was using Illusionary Weaponry and Dark Escape (complete with max daggers of enchantment) before Nightfall came out. When I took a step into Elona and spotted Deadly Paradox and Feigned Neutrality... I was (to understate it) gleeful. And to think that two of the supposed weakest classes in the game can team together to create something so potentially tank-like.
My typical battle tactic is to activate the Illusionary Weaponry before combat... followed immediately by the Paradox, Shadow Refuge and Dark Escape. This can be done a few times for a 20% extra run of Illusionary Weaponry so its no trouble to keep up (though note that Deadly Paradox and Dark Escape are both stances, so the latter cancels the former, though not without benefiting from its effects in activation). For the tougher enemies I just tag Feigned Neutrality on the end.
The end result of this is heaps of health regen, +80 armour, half damage besides... and still being able to attack for 34 damage without fear of missing, being blocked or dodged.
Just beware of Enchant-strippers. Nasty bastards. I typically skip Dark Escape and go straight for Feigned Neutrality when facing them, just to buffer up a few extra enchants (to protect the weaponry). O'course... some guys will still be able to strip all the enchants off... and for that I carry Shiro's Daggers around with me (or very rarely Arcane Echo my Illusionary Weaponry, though its not generally worth it).

Erm.... yeah... thats all I've got to say.
Can't imagine I'll be taken seriously since I only just signed up here.... but still... PvE Assassins (particularly A/Me and A/N) happen to be my strong point (since its all I do).

rick1027 · Jan 17, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

As someone whose Guild Wars experience consists about 95% of playing one Assassin character, I have found a few ways to get around this tricky little issue of dying quickly and easily. Incidentally its worth noting that ignorance is bliss... Since I've never felt compelled to play any other classes, I don't have anything to relate to in order to see just how bad the assassin dying problem really is... so I'm quite happy with my personal fatality-rate now I've got the hang of the game (and I don't die too often, though I'm presently at around 970-odd, aiming to break the 1000 mark soon).

Anyhow... my advice...

#1. Predator :
Avoid tanks and spike spellcasters as they have the least health generally and are quite likely to die before you do. Make sure to go for the ones on the periphery that are most separated from the others, and especially if they're furthest from the monks... Monks themselves might be a problem due to their constant healing, though I usually find that taking the monk down first ensures the rest of the party is much more easily killed. Ritualists however seem to be highest priority since, at least from my Factions experience, they are most often assigned to resurrecting their allies.
IF you cannot kill the enemy you're targetting quickly then just get the hell outta there (Dash or some sort of shadow step) as Assassins aren't long-haul characters.
Learn from the Necromancers and Mesmers. Empathy and Spiteful Spirit are an assassin's worst enemies... but that doesn't mean you can't take Mesmer or Necromancer secondary and defy their expectations by hexing them back with anti-spellcaster hexes. My very first build relied heavily on Backfire and Empathy.

#2. Pimp :
I noticed that the healer henchies in Factions are mostly female. Thats why I tend to refer to them as my ho-possé... but thats not the point. I don't go ANYWHERE without my two Healer Heroes... and usually take one or two healer henchies besides. It often doesn't matter how quickly you're losing health if you've got that many healers backing you up... well... provided you're not a total idiot in battle. It just means you don't have to be AS careful. Assassins aren't meant to solo, remember...
Its also a good idea to have at least one warrior henchie with you at all times. An easy trick when running into combat is to space-engage the enemy from just outside range, then activate Shadow Refuge or something briefly to cause your character to pause and the warrior to run just ahead (thereby taking the brunt of the initial assault).
Just for the record, I almost always have Tahlkora, Olias and Dunkoro as my heroes. Two monks and one maximised minion master (yes, with a lvl 26 Flesh Golem) is a combination that rarely goes wrong. Never underestimate the value of competant peons.

#3. Mistaken Identity :
Secondary classes are there for a reason. Its not ideal, but sometimes I will go out with Hyun Chae Soon built up as an SS Necro... with Dash, Shadow Refuge and Caltrops as the only Assassin skills. I often find that he survives much longer if he stays out of melee... and typical assassin attack skills are useless outside of melee. Nothing wrong with imitating another class therefore (especially since his armour is maximised for energy and his curses staff is likewise battery-packed). I also have an inbetweener build with SS and Mark of Pain... just in case I want to go in there to combo and have it become an AoE party (nothing sours the friendships of annoying group-huggers like an A/N toting Mark of Pain).
Even when you're not playing secondary as primary, if you have a spellcaster secondary class then don't be afraid to switch over to a wand or staff occasionally if you don't feel up to charging in... (just make sure you have enough points in the necessary attribute to make it worthwhile, and a few skills optimised for use with a staff).

#4. Illusionary Daggers :
My personal favourite (though to maximise effectiveness you need all three campaigns: Elite from Prophecies, Class from Factions, Tanking skills from Nightfall). I was using Illusionary Weaponry and Dark Escape (complete with max daggers of enchantment) before Nightfall came out. When I took a step into Elona and spotted Deadly Paradox and Feigned Neutrality... I was (to understate it) gleeful. And to think that two of the supposed weakest classes in the game can team together to create something so potentially tank-like.
My typical battle tactic is to activate the Illusionary Weaponry before combat... followed immediately by the Paradox, Shadow Refuge and Dark Escape. This can be done a few times for a 20% extra run of Illusionary Weaponry so its no trouble to keep up (though note that Deadly Paradox and Dark Escape are both stances, so the latter cancels the former, though not without benefiting from its effects in activation). For the tougher enemies I just tag Feigned Neutrality on the end.
The end result of this is heaps of health regen, +80 armour, half damage besides... and still being able to attack for 34 damage without fear of missing, being blocked or dodged.
Just beware of Enchant-strippers. Nasty bastards. I typically skip Dark Escape and go straight for Feigned Neutrality when facing them, just to buffer up a few extra enchants (to protect the weaponry). O'course... some guys will still be able to strip all the enchants off... and for that I carry Shiro's Daggers around with me (or very rarely Arcane Echo my Illusionary Weaponry, though its not generally worth it).

Erm.... yeah... thats all I've got to say.
Can't imagine I'll be taken seriously since I only just signed up here.... but still... PvE Assassins (particularly A/Me and A/N) happen to be my strong point (since its all I do).

well said on all points this is something that all assassins should know to be half way decent or better. as for secondary try not to think in as how to heal yourself think more of staying alive a few more seconds to get out. or try using critical from far away as in taking ranger and trying to be crit barrager and take a bow. i find if you stay out of the middle of a pack and use a little flexibility you are usually the one rezzing the group and getting others out of their mistakes.

TaiClaw · Jan 18, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

#1. Predator :
Avoid tanks and spike spellcasters as they have the least health generally and are quite likely to die before you do. Make sure to go for the ones on the periphery that are most separated from the others, and especially if they're furthest from the monks... Monks themselves might be a problem due to their constant healing, though I usually find that taking the monk down first ensures the rest of the party is much more easily killed. Ritualists however seem to be highest priority since, at least from my Factions experience, they are most often assigned to resurrecting their allies.
IF you cannot kill the enemy you're targetting quickly then just get the hell outta there (Dash or some sort of shadow step) as Assassins aren't long-haul characters.
Learn from the Necromancers and Mesmers. Empathy and Spiteful Spirit are an assassin's worst enemies... but that doesn't mean you can't take Mesmer or Necromancer secondary and defy their expectations by hexing them back with anti-spellcaster hexes. My very first build relied heavily on Backfire and Empathy.

Like SotiCoto I also have been playing nothing but Assassin for the past 8-9months and I can tell you that what I have quoted above is probably the most important lesson that an Assassin needs to learn to become a competent PvEr.

CagedinSanity · Jan 18, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

As a level 14 Asn I don't have much problem with not getting killed, but that's ONLY because I don't attack and run all the time. I have max armor which helps but useless daggers so that's the primary reason I don't attack. I usually let the henchmen or other players do everything, at least untill I get some decent daggers.

But back on noob island, in the super-early missions where I was forced to do things myself, I died a LOT. Level 14 with like 12 deaths, which doesn't sound like a low but in just a couple hours that's way too much. I had to have a couple guildies rush me past noob island.

hondy · Jan 18, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

As a level 14 Asn I don't have much problem with not getting killed, but that's ONLY because I don't attack and run all the time. I have max armor which helps but useless daggers so that's the primary reason I don't attack. I usually let the henchmen or other players do everything, at least untill I get some decent daggers.

But back on noob island, in the super-early missions where I was forced to do things myself, I died a LOT. Level 14 with like 12 deaths, which doesn't sound like a low but in just a couple hours that's way too much. I had to have a couple guildies rush me past noob island.

Your not much of an assassin if you just keep doing that. An assassin shouldn't rely entirly on his daggers, there skill combination could counter the need for that normally.

Assassins are one of the hardest proffesions to play but once mastered, are amazing! I'm enjoying myself now with using shadow of haste to set up a spawn point, charge in, attack and when I'm hurt, I use deadly paradox to get myself out and follow it up with feigned nuetrality to get my health back up. I'm currently looking at different ways a caster can take advantage of assassin skills.

SotiCoto · Jan 18, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Of course.... just to play Devil's Advocate against my own advice... A poorly played Assassin, while a downright annoyance to monk team-mates, is definitely a boon for Minion Masters.

There have been a few times where I just needed Olias's level 26 Flesh Golem to properly get started on a tough group... so what do I do? I charge in like a kamikaze monkey of doom, do as much damage as I can and die in a blaze of glory.... only for the group to find my place taken by something rather more powerful (or if I'm unlucky, Olias does the stupid thing and raises a Bone Fiend instead).

That said... I take great pride in my Assassin Runner build, if only because the idea of an Assassin runner seems inherantly paradoxical. Rest assured though... the running potential of maximised Daggers of Enchantment, Deadly Paradox, Arcane Echo and Shadow Form are not to be underestimated... (complete with Dark Escape, Shadow Refuge, Feigned Neutrality and Illusion of Haste... Att points pumped into Shadow Arts and Illusion Magic, with a shred of Deadly Arts for the Paradox duration). I mean... it has a few inherant flaws (limited tanking time requiring aggro-free rest areas once in a while), and energy management can be a pain in the arse... but I have confirmed that it actually works even in some quite tough areas (provided there aren't Chilblains users around).

Bloodied Blade · Jan 18, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

There's pretty much 1 set of things that you have to live by as an assassin- Get in, combo, get out. You should be targetting low AL targets like monks and rits, mostly b/c these are easy to kill, but also because you don't have a prayer of killing anything else if it's being healed. If you need to reduce damage, just refuge and get out. Try not to rush in until after aggro has been established (i.e. when your tank goes "garr!") so that you don't pull an army to the backline when you get out.

Painbringer · Jan 18, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

My Sin is a hit man my job is to take out Healers or Nasty Casters or even a boss the rest of the group will worry about the rest. If you are having problems I suggest you add some defense. I think like most people starting out you are playing them like a warrior. If you are having problems staying alive I suggest a good defense look to the ranger class as a secondary. Rangers have some good skills for defense. Example - Whirling Defenses it will give you some time to run away and recharge, but you can not stay in the battle with it for it will only last a few seconds. Another Example is Trolls Urgent look at it as a defense and not a healing skill. When I used it I would start it then engaged enemies you get 10 seconds of healing, so it helps against spikes. Prioritize your targets then think like an Assassin get in, do the job, get out.

CagedinSanity · Jan 18, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondy

Your not much of an assassin if you just keep doing that. An assassin shouldn't rely entirly on his daggers, there skill combination could counter the need for that normally.

Again, level 14. Vs level 20's. I'm going to be standing back for a while. apparently you missed that.

Once I'm able to get decent daggers+maybe an elite, I'll get into action.
I need to find Shadow step :/

SotiCoto · Jan 19, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

Again, level 14. Vs level 20's. I'm going to be standing back for a while. apparently you missed that.

Once I'm able to get decent daggers+maybe an elite, I'll get into action.
I need to find Shadow step :/

... I never even thought about that.

I suspect one of the reasons I didn't have much trouble on Shing Jea Island was that when I first started in factions, I instantly (before killing my first monster) joined up with a rather generous guild and one of the guildmembers gave me (yes... gave me) a pair of Furious Dragon Scythes of Enchanting... gold, max damage... with 19% enchant extension. Naturally the "furious" bit was completely and utterly useless to me, so I replaced it with Crippling at first oppurtunity..... but those daggers lasted me absolutely ages (until I stepped to another guild, bought a whole selection of daggers for every conceivable circumstance at budget prices from another member... and then left because they switched sides to ally with the Luxons).
I've never even used a pair of daggers that weren't max-damage. Ever. Besides... with a lot of Shadow Arts (which I had), Daggers of Enchanting make Shadow Refuge that little bit more useful.

And as I'm sure I have mentioned.... I don't shadow-step...

Utaku · Jan 19, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Well, max damage on daggers is not very important.
Actually daggers on their own deal less damage than a wand or a staff.

BUT, dagger attack skills give high +x dmg bonuses, that ignore armor.
Max +x damage on attack skills is +42 for Warriors, Dervs, Paragons as far as I know, whereas assassins attack skills can go much higher, I you meet conditions.
Check [skill]shattering assault[/skill][skill]Desperate Strike[/skill][skill]Jungle Strike[/skill] for instance.

Kelson · Jan 19, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

#2. Pimp :
I don't go ANYWHERE without my two Healer Heroes... and usually take one or two healer henchies besides. It often doesn't matter how quickly you're losing health if you've got that many healers backing you up... well... provided you're not a total idiot in battle. It just means you don't have to be AS careful.
Assassins aren't meant to solo, remember...

While some of your advice is decent enough, I think this piece is terrible. There is no area in this game you should need or bring 4 monks, if you're playing right. Doing so means you are severely gimping your damage output, and flat-out playing incorrectly. I'm sure I can aggro half a mission map with 4 monks and survive while taking an hour to kill everything with my gimped damage output, but does that mean I should in any way? Pure and simply, it is far from being effective.
People complain about assassin survivability, but I believe it to be one of the best classes for surviving when played correctly. You've mentioned shadow stepping, Deadly Paradox and Feigned Neutrality, and these are all you need to be pretty close to unkillable. If you're using these correctly, no way you should be dying often.
By the way, whether meant to be or not, assassin is one of the best solo-farming classes in the game, using Shadow Form, and even without Shadow Form, there are a number of places and ways you can solo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

#3. Mistaken Identity :
Its not ideal........Nothing wrong with imitating another class

Here, you give the reason I disagree with you yourself...its not ideal. Sure, you can pretend to be a necro, but why would you? You'll never be as effective as a primary necro, and you'll be far less effective than you could when actually playing as what you are - an assassin. Sure gimmick and strange builds can be very fun to play at times, but you should not rely heavily on these to get through the game.

EDIT: Saw this on another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Bah. Shadow-stepping skills are for PvPers... I have no need of such things.

I'm a Londoner. I have superior people-dodging skills... and use Dash in game to put that to good use.... Good old Go-For-The-Monk tactics (or in the case of afflicted, Go-For-The-Ritualist). Trying to shadow-step just disorients me more than it does the enemy (AI based) and ultimately only takes up another skill on my skill bar.

This would be exactly why you need 4 monks.